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I would just think a later adaptation of the caste system would be addressed later, and an article about the caste system in India would start with how the caste system in India started, to serve as a basis to preface and contrast the later transformation. Later. On in the article. The first few paragraphs after the first, which seems to strongly preface this theme, seem to be dedicated to emphasizing how much the brittish leveraged and transformed the caste system in the colonial process, which is definitely a highly relevant and serious matter that should be included in the article, but having so much of it up front seems like either deliberately biased framing or exceptionally poor organization. Is that crazy of me to think that? I hope I'm not just imagining things. 66.161.198.172 (talk) 00:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the take of many modern academics, here and in many other subjects - blame everything on the British, and if that fails, the Mughals. It is very largely nonsense of course. Johnbod (talk) 04:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kautilya3: it seems to me that Reich et al. (2009) comes chronologically after Banshad et al. (2001), since Bamshad et al. refer to the Indo-Aryan migrations, while Reich et al. refer to the founder effects of groups formed after those migrations:
Six Indo-European- and Dravidian speaking groups have evidence of founder events dating to more than 30 generations ago (Supplementary Fig. 2), including the Vysya at more than 100 generations ago (Fig. 2). Strong endogamy must have applied since then
I don't know if they specify how long a generation is, but if we take it to be 25 years, then 30 generations is 750 years, while 100 generations is 2500 year, that is, 500 BCE, long after the IA-migrations. Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk!11:32, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The mention of "thousands years" led me to believe they were talking about pre-Aryan times. Anyway, now the whole thing seems to be gone, except for one sentence stuck into a sociological paragraph. I am not comfortable with mixing sociology and genetics, because the connections between them are not known. The idea that "Aryas" were immigrants and "Dasas" were natives is countered by R. S. Sharma. He says both the groups were Indo-European-speaking. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the article seems biased in its framing if not technically correct. It presents the caste system as something secular that arose after colonial rule and downplays its significance in pre-Mughal pre- colonial India. It’s misleading to frame the caste system of Hinduism and the caste system of today as totally separate entities when they arose from the same ideas and sources 2600:1700:2191:41A0:D1CE:E254:9D0C:A26D (talk) 11:03, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While I do not have access to Reich's 2018 book, I do have access to the study by Nakatsuka et al (2017) that is also cited in this section. Neither that study, nor the methodology explained in the Ancient DNA section, seem to involve any Ancient DNA at all. Instead, they seem to have taken DNA of modern humans and then used their knowledge of evolutionary theory to extrapolate the likely age of the last common ancestors of the individual clades. If we want to keep a separate section for this methodology, I would propose changing the title simply to genetics research or similar, and then also move the reference to the 2016 DNA-based study mentioned at the end of the Jatis section to here. Felix QW (talk) 11:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Refer to WP:Citing Wikipedia Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 02:56, 22 September 2024 (UTC)