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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 June 19

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June 19

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Category:Profession user templates

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 July 7#Category:Profession user templates

Category:American genderqueer novelists

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 July 13#Category:American genderqueer novelists

Ukraine

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Option A – rename using "z". There is consensus to make a change in order to achieve consistency, but opinions on which way to go are finely balanced. To be consistent with the precedent for France (which was also closed by me), I am giving weight to the spelling used on the national government websites. – Fayenatic London 14:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming under one of the following options:
Option A - "Organisations" to "Organizations" (Rename 30)
  1. Category:Organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Organizations based in Ukraine
  2. Category:Organisations based in Kiev to Category:Organizations based in Kiev
  3. Category:Non-profit organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Non-profit organizations based in Ukraine
  4. Category:Political organisations based in Ukraine by ideology to Category:Political organizations based in Ukraine by ideology
  5. Category:Anarchist organisations in Ukraine to Category:Anarchist organizations in Ukraine
  6. Category:Human rights organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Human rights organizations based in Ukraine
  7. Category:Educational organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Educational organizations based in Ukraine
  8. Category:Political organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Political organizations based in Ukraine
  9. Category:Student organisations in Ukraine to Category:Student organizations in Ukraine
  10. Category:Jewish organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Jewish organizations based in Ukraine
  11. Category:Wikipedia categories named after organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Wikipedia categories named after organizations based in Ukraine
  12. Category:Organisations based in Kiev Oblast to Category:Organizations based in Kiev Oblast
  13. Category:Defunct organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Defunct organizations based in Ukraine
  14. Category:Youth organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Youth organizations based in Ukraine
  15. Category:Medical and health organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Medical and health organizations based in Ukraine
  16. Category:Sports organisations of Ukraine to Category:Sports organizations of Ukraine
  17. Category:Disability organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Disability organizations based in Ukraine
  18. Category:Arts organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Arts organizations based in Ukraine
  19. Category:Women's organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Women's organizations based in Ukraine
  20. Category:Transport organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Transport organizations based in Ukraine
  21. Category:Aviation organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Aviation organizations based in Ukraine
  22. Category:Lists of organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Lists of organizations based in Ukraine
  23. Category:Organisations based in Kharkiv Oblast to Category:Organizations based in Kharkiv Oblast
  24. Category:Television organisations in Ukraine to Category:Television organizations in Ukraine
  25. Category:Music organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Music organizations based in Ukraine
  26. Category:Paramilitary organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Paramilitary organizations based in Ukraine
  27. Category:Organisations based in Zaporizhia Oblast to Category:Organizations based in Zaporizhia Oblast
  28. Category:Scientific organisations based in Ukraine to Category:Scientific organizations based in Ukraine
  29. Category:Film organisations in Ukraine to Category:Film organizations in Ukraine
  30. Category:Feminist organisations in Ukraine to Category:Feminist organizations in Ukraine
Option B - "Organizations" to "Organisations" (Rename 28)
  1. Category:Organizations based in Crimea to Category:Organisations based in Crimea
  2. Category:Organizations based in Ukraine by region to Category:Organisations based in Ukraine by region
  3. Category:Organizations based in Kharkiv to Category:Organisations based in Kharkiv
  4. Category:Organizations based in Lviv to Category:Organisations based in Lviv
  5. Category:Business organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Business organisations based in Ukraine
  6. Category:Organizations based in Lutsk to Category:Organisations based in Lutsk
  7. Category:Organizations based in Volyn Oblast to Category:Organisations based in Volyn Oblast
  8. Category:Organizations based in Ukraine by city to Category:Organisations based in Ukraine by city
  9. Category:Organizations based in Donetsk to Category:Organisations based in Donetsk
  10. Category:Leninist organizations to Category:Leninist organisations
  11. Category:Ukrainian military organizations to Category:Ukrainian military organisations
  12. Category:Organizations based in Sevastopol to Category:Organisations based in Sevastopol
  13. Category:Christian organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Christian organisations based in Ukraine
  14. Category:Religious organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Religious organisations based in Ukraine
  15. Category:Cultural organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Cultural organisations based in Ukraine
  16. Category:Ukrainian nationalist organizations to Category:Ukrainian nationalist organisations
  17. Category:Communist organizations in Ukraine to Category:Communist organisations in Ukraine
  18. Category:Scientific organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Scientific organisations based in Ukraine
  19. Category:Organizations based in Ukraine by subject to Category:Organisations based in Ukraine by subject
  20. Category:Islamic organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Islamic organisations based in Ukraine
  21. Category:History organizations based in Ukraine to Category:History organisations based in Ukraine
  22. Category:Environmental organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Environmental organisations based in Ukraine
  23. Category:Child-related organizations in Ukraine to Category:Child-related organisations in Ukraine
  24. Category:Consumer organizations in Ukraine to Category:Consumer organisations in Ukraine
  25. Category:Organizations based in Simferopol to Category:Organisations based in Simferopol
  26. Category:Standards organizations in Ukraine to Category:Standards organisations in Ukraine
  27. Category:Ethnic organizations based in Ukraine to Category:Ethnic organisations based in Ukraine
  28. Category:Organizations based in Zaporizhia to Category:Organisations based in Zaporizhia
User:Od Mishehu launched a series of cfds on this topic in 2017, the premise being that a given country should use either 'z' or 's' (but not a mixture thereof); eg France, Brazil, Bolivia, Iran, Angola, Greece, Poland, Israel, Puerto Rico, Turkey. Oculi (talk) 12:09, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • LL has used this phrase before, and described it as "half joke, half metaphor". See this cfd closed with the comment "I suggest that the remaining cases like this should favour -z- except where there has been a strong British connection" by the sagacious closer @Fayenatic london:. Oculi (talk) 23:48, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'z' is correct everywhere. 's' is wrong in North America. (Oxford spelling - "The suffix -ize has been in use in the UK since the 15th century,[9] and is the spelling variation used in North American English. The belief that -ize is an exclusively North American variant is incorrect.[9]"; "In both the King James Bible and the works of Shakespeare, -ize endings are used throughout.") It is the British who have strayed from the classical English of Shakespeare. Oculi (talk) 16:50, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moreover 'ize' is used much more often in Ukraine. "Organization" gets 600 hits on the Ukranian government website https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/ whereas 'organisation' gets a trifling 22. Oculi (talk) 00:04, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oculi I must correct you on your statement that 'z' is correct everywhere, 'ize' is very much incorrect in Australia. Cavalryman V31 (talk) 00:43, 28 June 2019 (UTC).[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Places named after Thomas Jefferson

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. MER-C 08:41, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SHAREDNAME
This category consists of places (mostly U.S. counties) with little to do with President Jefferson other than they were named after him. Many U.S. counties are named after early presidents: this category has Jefferson counties from Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio and Pennsylvania but all those states also have counties named after President Washington and President Adams so this approach would lead to category clutter. This category does not seem defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:25, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In case it wasn't already obvious, this kind of stuff is classic LIST material. And whadayaknow, there already is an oddly misnamed article called List of memorials to Thomas Jefferson (which I've just added to Category:Places named after Thomas Jefferson). Unfortunately, there's a lot missing - like 4 of those 19 counties. Yup. Oh well, at least it's a reasonably good starting point... and it's already divided into sections. Anomalous+0 (talk) 22:49, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, maybe when they named them someone threw all of the names ever named into a hat and by astronomical odds dozens of naming-committees picked the name "Thomas Jefferson". Of course naming a county or a ship or a playground after someone is a way of honoring and memorializing them. The concept "memorial" means "to remember". Randy Kryn (talk) 21:46, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, you may well regard it as throwing names into a hat and picking one randomly, though not all names have equal probabilities and "Thomas Jefferson" clearly has much higher probability than average. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:40, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:57, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:21st-century heads of state of France

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. MER-C 08:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: No reason for this intermediate step: under the current French Fifth Republic, France has only one head of state: the president. — JFG talk 08:43, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Some corrections can be made to the list: "the Presidents of the National Convention (1792-1795)" were not heads of state, just presidents of the parliament. The assertion "whose president (elected from within for a 14-day term) may be considered as France's legitimate Head of State during this period" is POV. There was no head of state between 1792-1795. I have also strong doubts about the "Presidents of the Committee of Public Safety", where does the list come from? To my knowledge, Robespierre was not president of the Committee. T8612 (talk) 12:55, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:49, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- In other centuries the head of state has had various titles, but I see no reason why the 21st century category in the series should not be "President". Alternatively, the 21st century head of state cat should become a cat-redirect to "President", as this would be effective to prevent re-creation. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:11, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The House of Bourbon might rise again. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:48, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose These categories should be kept consistent. Nothing is lost if this category is left the way it is, but consistency with its partner categories is lost if it is merged into a more specific category. The history of France is vast, and the present categorization scheme properly encapsulates the changes that have happened in French leadership over the centuries. Newshunter12 (talk) 01:42, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Churches

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge for now (as WP:SOFTDELETE) except for group 4 and Category:Churches in Düsseldorf, Category:Churches in Osnabrück, Category:Churches in Limassol, Category:Churches in Plzeň, Category:Churches in Darmstadt, Category:Churches in Leeuwarden, Category:Churches in Weimar; Category:Churches in Lucknow, Category:Churches in Mysore, Category:Churches in Pune, Category:Churches in Srinagar, Category:Churches in Jaffna, Category:Churches in Banja Luka, Category:Churches in Batumi, Category:Churches in Agartala. – Fayenatic London 04:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(group 1)
more of group 1
(group 2)
more of group 2
group 3)
more of group 3
(group 4)
more of group 4
(withdrawn)

Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, currently only 1 or 2 articles in each of these cities. While there may well be some room for expansion in any of those cities it remains a matter of a crystal ball to determine how many churches are really notable. This is a follow-up on this earlier discussion. Note that I have no intention of batch-nominating categories of 3 or more articles.
Note that the nomination consists of four groups:
  1. articles for which only one merge target has been specified, for example because the Churches in region or country parent category has been diffused by denomination and the articles are already in the denominational cousin categories;
  2. articles with a Buildings and structures in city target and a Churches in region or country target;
  3. articles with a City target and a Churches in region or country target, because the city does not even have a Buildings and structures in city subcategory;
  4. articles with other merge targets. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:00, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a larger overall accepted sub-categorization scheme for countries, not for populated places. With some exceptions (as nominated), subcategories of cities are being created upon need, not by default. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose categories for very large cities. These are likely to grow. Abuja, Baton Rouge and those mentioned by Zanhe. Otherwise support deletion of smaller cities that are highly unlikely to ever grow.--TM 03:11, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would request that you withdraw the Sacramento category as well. It now has 3 articles and, with a population of over 500,000 residents, there are likely several other notable church buildings in the city.--TM 19:14, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, To be honest I do not feel strongly one way or the other, but I have a feeling some of these are useless categories. There are three categories for communities that I am familiar with and I will limit my comments to them. To begin with, they can all be merged as proposed. Ottumwa and Keokuk, Iowa are small cities with few notable churches. Another problem with these two is that the individual churches are categorized in both their respective city and county church categories. There is no need for all four categories, the city's church categories will not grow much more, if at all, so I would maintain the county church categories and eliminate those from the cities.
Silver Spring Maryland is a slightly different case. First of all, it is an unincorporated area in the southern part of Montgomery County, with part of that area forming a census-designated place (CDP) called Silver Spring. However, places with a Silver Spring address exist in other CDPs as the boundaries of these places change at the discretion of the US Census Bureau. The post office, based on their needs, generally keeps address locations the same regardless of the changing CDPs. This is all background to say that neither church categorized as Silver Spring is in the CDP, but they maintain their Silver Spring addresses. So their "municipal" category is based on their address and not their changeable jurisdiction. They, like the Iowa churches, are categorized in both the municipal and county church categories.
I haven't checked the other categories from the US, but is this double categorizing common for all of them? If so, it seems to me that they might be better served by their county church category than their city church category while maintaining their inclusion in the city or city building/structure category. I realize, however, that this may not be true for all locals and a determination needs to be done on a case-by-case basis. Farragutful (talk) 16:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:39, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
and thus also very likely to have more churches worthy of articles (just to finish the point).Ingratis (talk) 00:55, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Religion in France by city

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. MER-C 10:29, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only few cities in France have a separate religion category on top of the Christianity category, or a separate places of worship category on top of the churches category, which makes sense because Christianity is dominant in the French religious landscape. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:19, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Places of worship in France by city is good way of grouping religious buildings by city. There should be more such categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is surprising that @Marcocapelle chose not to disclose those creations when complaining that the broader new-created subcategories add little value. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:36, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the Category:Places of worship in France by city is one of ~1000 similar categories which at WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 March 21#Places_of_worship I have proposed renaming to the slightly broader title "Religious buildings". In some cases, this will add a few articles to those categories, so if there is consensus for that renaming, it may alter the assessment of the categories nominated here. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:43, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:37, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

People from Sardinia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: please renominate Category:Sardinian Roman Catholic priests for renaming, delete everything else. MER-C 15:43, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming:
Propose deleting:
Nominator's rationale. Series of new categories created by new editor @RecycledPixels, with edit summaries noting that they were copied from the Italian categories. With two problems:
  1. Sardinia is not a sovereign state, we categorise people from there by the "People from Foo" convention, rather than by the demonyms which we used for nationalities.
  2. We don't need to replicate the whole category structure for a country in the category tree for an island. We don't have many article on people from Sardinia, and that path would just be over-categorisation.
So this nomination seeks to rename the one category with actual substantive article content (Category:Sardinian Roman Catholic priests, with 16 pages), and delete the rest. (Category:16th-century Sardinian people contains one page, but we don't need to start a by-century tree just for one page).--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:20, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure lack of content is a fair reason to delete a category that was just created a few hours ago. I'm sure that a nation that existed for more than five centuries had more than one or two notable people in it. RecycledPixels (talk) 16:43, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, as creator. Agreed that modern Sardinia is not a sovereign state. However it used to be; see Kingdom of Sardinia which existed from the early 14th until the mid-19th century. The need for the category came to my attention while editing the Francesco Zirano article, of a 16th-century priest from Sardinia. The article before I started editing it identified him as an Italian Roman Catholic Priest. Another editor raised what I saw as a valid objection to this label (see edit summary at [2]. That edit had to do with the mentions within the article, but when I came back to the article, I noticed that there were several categories on the article that categorized the articles under categories like "italian Franciscans", 16th century Italian People, and so on. I don't feel that categorizing these articles as Italian or as Spanish people under the existing categories would be appropriate. Nor would I feel that people from Sardinia today should be put into these categories, but people from the Kingdom of Sardinia should be put there. No objection to renaming from "Sardinian priests" to "Kingdom of Sardinian priests", and so on if that would be less confusing, it just makes for confusingly long category names. A similar situation exists for categories like Category:Norman Franciscans. It wouldn't be appropriate to merge that into Category:French Franciscans just because Normandy is now part of modern-day France. RecycledPixels (talk) 16:36, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here are some additional categories I created at the same time that aren't listed in the original nomination, so they can all be included in this discussion (feel free to cut and paste into the top section if you like):
These were all created just to maintain the same category heirarchy, and I used the Italian categories as a model. As you can see, it turned out to be quite a trip down the rabbit hole just to avoid leaving categories around that weren't appropriately connected to their parent categories. And the purpose of this was to replace four inappropriate categories on the Francesco Zirano article: Category:16th-century Italian people, Category:Italian Franciscans, Category:Italian Roman Catholic priests, and Category:Italian beatified people, so if there is a better way to do it, I'm open to feedback. RecycledPixels (talk) 18:27, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The hierarchy should be created gradually, adding a category to the hierarchy only when it can be populated with at least around 5 articles (not counting articles in its subcategories). That is why below I voted delete, to be interpreted as "delete for now". Feel free to populate the categories while the discussion is going on and I will withdraw my opposition against any categories that reach a substantial number of articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:20, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MER-C 09:36, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • So we have "Sardinian" vs "from Sardinia" vs "from the Kingdom of Sardinia" and we also have "Roman Catholic" vs "Catholic", that makes 3 * 2 = 6 possible combinations. Honestly I do not count on getting consensus on this one. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:33, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Benson Medal

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Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 June 28#Category:Recipients of the Benson Medal

Category:Roman Catholic dioceses in India

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. MER-C 10:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C Syro Malabar and Syro Malankara are not under a Roman Catholic diocese but are still in the category.Manabimasu (talk) 04:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.