Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boca Juniors de Huarmey

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

~~The result was delete for the uncontested ones, keep for Unión Miraflores, and no consensus for the remaining. T. Canens (talk) 03:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)~~ [reply]

The result was delete Boca Juniors de Huarmey, which is the only properly tagged one of this lot. As to the remaining articles, this AfD is void. T. Canens (talk) 03:39, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Boca Juniors de Huarmey

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This football club has never played in a national-level league or cup. It fails WP:FOOTYN. It is not a well-known club in Peru either. Almost no sources on article page to support notability. MicroX (talk) 06:03, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because these Peruvian football clubs also fail WP:FOOTYN and have few to no sources supporting their notability:

Additions by MicroX (talk) 06:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Peru-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 01:53, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all - a quick look through the clubs shows that none have competed at a notable enough level. Giant Snowman 01:55, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: These articles may only be the tip of the iceberg. Looking at the article on the leagues some of these clubs play in 2010 Ligas Superiores del Peru, I see a lot of blue links to clubs playing at the same level. Are any of them notable? Alzarian16 (talk) 11:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Most (not all) of the clubs found in Ligas Superiores are not notable because the majority have played in their respective District League for decades and have never ascended to the top flight nor touched the national stage of Copa Perú. A select few are former top-flight clubs but I have not included any of those clubs on this list. In addition, many of these Copa Perú clubs have sources found in blogs. --MicroX (talk) 17:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It would have been better to not nominate so many in one go in order to allow more time to assess the validity of each one. Eldumpo (talk) 09:15, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Uni Chiclayo, Municipal de Huamanga, Humberto Luna, Juventud Media Luna, Municipal San Ignacio and Michiquillay - these all played in the 2009 Copa Perú [1] Eldumpo (talk) 18:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Senor de Sipan - played in the 2008 Copa Perú [2] Eldumpo (talk) 18:09, 13 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Merely playing in the Copa Peru does not mean notability. The bulk of this event starts in district, province, and department leagues which are not notable in Peruvian football. The Copa Peru's national stage is the ultimate stage where some kind of minor notability is achieved by the semi-finalists and finalists but it is not certain. Senor de Sipan did not make it far in the regional stage (stage prior to national stage) and were eliminated by placing 3rd (of 4) in their group. Universidad de Chiclayo, Humberto Luna, Juventud Media Luna, Municipal San Ignacio and Michiquillay were all eliminated in the regional stage (like Senor de Sipan), a stage not noted at a national level. Deportivo Municipal de Huamanga were eliminated in the first round of the national stage of 2009.--MicroX (talk) 00:00, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 01:32, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Union Miraflores - played in Peruvian top flight and were runners-up in 1917 (info added to article). Eldumpo (talk) 19:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Universidad Andina - played in final regional stages of 2006 Copa Perú [3] Eldumpo (talk) 20:41, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Deportivo Sachapuyos and Belen - played in the final regional stages of the 2002 Copa Perú [4] Eldumpo (talk) 20:43, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Universidad Piura - played in final regional stages of 1999 Copa Perú [5] Eldumpo (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all the above except Union Miraflores. --MicroX (talk) 01:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Copa Peru is effectively the 2nd level of the national league system, and whilst it won't be reasonable to include every club who starts the competition, including those clubs who have reached the main regional stage of the event does appear to be notable, based on the importance of football in Peru and the RSSSF sources. Notwithstanding that, I am surprised that you feel Huamanga should not be deemed notable, having made the national stages of the Copa Peru. This suggests that you think only a small number of clubs in the whole of Peru are regarded as notable? Eldumpo (talk) 17:59, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately yes, only a small number of clubs (well not that small) are regarded notable in Peru. The country is a heavily centralized country; the central hub being the capital city. There is very, very little coverage of the Copa Peru. Interest for this event begins in the very final stages of the tournament. Merely reaching the round of 16 of the national stage does not guarantee notability as every year, the clubs that reach these stages drastically change. In fact, Deportivo Municipal de Huamanga is a new team. On a side note, notability requires verifiability and most of these clubs use blogs to keep up to date which aren't very reliable if you ask me. --MicroX (talk) 22:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have posted already the RSSSF references to the Copa Peru but here are some other references [6] [7] [8].

Also, as posted below, please note that Union Miraflores previously played in the Peruvian top flight. Eldumpo (talk) 20:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Using the FPF as a source is not a good idea. As you can see, the event is not completed. That website is not reliable. Zonabase.net is a blog site which also isn't a good idea. Blogs also sometimes publish original research. DeChalaca is also a kind of blog but it is only 1 source and it does not keep to date with all the teams and leagues. Union Miraflores did play in the top flight so that team is notable but the rest should be deleted. --MicroX (talk) 23:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see what's wrong with using FPF as a source. The particular page linked is to a list of regional winners, thus further confirming the list of notable sources for the Copa Peru. Here is another link to the regional stages [9] Eldumpo (talk) 20:55, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For starters, the FPF's coverage of the 2009 Copa Peru is incomplete. The way things work in Peru is that the most notable event is the first division (that and the national team's performance). The first division is all that really matters. The second division is there but the media and public don't pay much attention to it until a team is about to be promoted. The Copa Peru isn't extensively covered either until the semifinals or finals. So in the eyes of the public and media, the Copa Peru isn't notable until a team is about to get promoted. On another note, the Copa Peru promotes teams to both the first and second division and soon it will not promote teams to the first division. If Peruvians don't see these teams as notable teams (except those that have played in top division in the past), then why should they be considered notable on Wikipedia. A similar case is Spain's first division. The Spanish league is officially called Primera Division but the Wikipedia entry is La Liga and the reason why it was never moved to Primera Division was because no one refers it as Primera Division. It is notably seen by the public and media as La Liga. We have a similar case here. Most of these Peruvian teams are not notable because they are not noted by the media and public unless they are promoted or reach the very final stages.--MicroX (talk) 23:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are a number of statements above (and in previous paragraphs) that are unreferenced e.g. 'the first division is all that really matters', 'in the eyes of the public...'. I have presented a number of references showing the notability of the Copa Peru. Eldumpo (talk) 18:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, just want to say I have lived in Peru and I know the public opinion on the matter of the Copa Peru. The sports newspapers in Peru are Depor, Libero, ElBocon, TodoSport. Depor does not really report much on the Copa Peru as you can see on its site. Libero has a section on Copa Peru however, it virtually provides no coverage as the only things that appear are 2 reports published on June 6 on teams that are already notable in Peru (Deportivo Municipal and Atlético Grau). ElBocon also has a section on Copa Peru, however their coverage is on the Lima Province leagues; a lot of teams on this AfD list are of clubs that participate outside of Lima. Todosport fails to mention anything on Copa Peru. This is how the printed media views the Copa Peru. Then there is a popular online website called futbolperuano which has some poor coverage of the Copa Peru. As you can see, the headlines pertain to last year's Copa Peru (Leon de Huanuco was the champion) and the only headline for this year is that a traditional club that participates in Copa Peru lost their president (Deportivo Municipal). If you look at the coverage of the First Division in these articles, it will be greater and more detailed. This is what I meant with "the first division is all that really matters" and "in the eyes of the public". --MicroX (talk) 01:13, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying that the Primera Division is not the main league in Peru or where most attention is focused, although that is the case in all countries, and it does not mean there is no interest or notability anywhere outside the top league. I think this page now shows a significant number of links referring to the Copa Peru; I'm sure there are other articles on Wikipedia would love to have that many sources. I don't see the problem with futpol peruano referring to 2009 still, as the 2010 competition is not complete - it confirms notability for the competition. Here are some further Copa Peru sources [10] [11] Eldumpo (talk) 09:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is any of the articles that are kept from this list will remain stubs aside from lack of notability. --MicroX (talk) 19:03, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.