Talk:Bodu Bala Sena
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(The following was copied from Kwamikagami's talk page. diff:[1])
Bodu Bala Sena or Bodu Bala Senaa?
I have just made an article for Bodu Bala Sena (බොදු බල සේනා in Sinhala language), but I see that Arab News is spelling it "Bodu Bala Senaa",[2]. This spelling seems to be spreading very quickly as the article is pasted all over the internet, and the organization receives more international attention. The organization's own YouTube and Facebook websites use "Bodu Bala Sena", as have earlier Sri Lankan sources. Ordinarily I would chalk it up to a typo, but the Arab News seems to be very strong in English, and the Sri Lankan sources, not so much; still, my gut reaction is to go with how the organization spells its own name. Google Translate doesn't do Sinhala yet, so I have puzzled over the Omniglot description of the Sinhala alphabet.[3] The problem seems to be with the last symbol නා, but that's as far as I can get. The Arabic letter ع is sometimes transliterated as "aa", perhaps this is how නා sounds to the Arab ear. Or perhaps it is a typo. Is this something I should be concerned about? Thanks. Neotarf (talk) 09:05, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
- The last word is sēnā. Both vowels are long, AFAICT. Normally we just omit the macron when assimilating into English, and that's true for Arabic as well. It would be odd to transcribe it with a ع, and I seriously doubt that's how it would sound to an Arabic ear. (Arabic also has vowel length, and it would presumably be heard as that.) It also seems a bit weird to show only one of the vowels as long. Since the org's preferred spelling accords with normal English practice, I'd go with that. — kwami (talk) 09:21, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Neotarf (talk) 10:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 28 February 2013
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Bodu Bala Sena (බොදු බල සේනා "Buddhist Power Force" in the Sinhala language)[1] is a Buddhist organization based in Colombo, Sri Lanka.[2]
please refer to them as a religious extremist organization. sources - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21494959, http://www.asiantribune.com/node/61792
Bodu Bala Sena (බොදු බල සේනා "Buddhist Power Force" in the Sinhala language)[1] is a Buddhist group of hardline extremists based in Colombo, Sri Lanka.[2]
116.15.177.167 (talk) 18:39, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Not done:. Please see WP:TERRORIST. —KuyaBriBriTalk 18:59, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- @116.15.177.167: Those are both very interesting links, thank you. The first one, BBC News, is a reliable source and can be used for the article. The other one, Asian Tribune, is written by a Sri Lanka Tamil journalist from his own perspective. The publication does not have editorial oversight, so it cannot be used as a "reliable source". It also says its "focus is on issues and concerns and champions them with passion...", so it does not have a neutral point of view either. So this publication can not be used as a source for the article, even though its Tamil perspective is very interesting. I'm afraid you can't say Bodu Bala Sena is a "religious extremist organization" based on these sources, that would be original research; you have to be very careful with that, but I think you can still use these links in some way. 223.207.113.153 (talk) 15:32, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Clear bias
No mention of the anti-islamic/islamophobe nature of this organization? Nothing on its anti-halal/anti-sharia facets? The English Defence League, if you read the page, is based on much the same policies as the BBS, and yet the BBS is being treated as a "Buddhist organization". I'd include this myself, but I have a feeling folks at WikiProject Lanka wont be too pleased if I do in this instance. All I'll say is that it is unbecoming of an encyclopedia to attempt to distort facts or demonstrate bias and lack of objectivity. Walkalia (talk) 12:50, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
- Those are extraordinary claims. At the very least, you need a source for that. 223.207.113.153 (talk) 15:35, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's not that extraordinary:
- Lakbima: "Bodu Bala Sena to continue anti-Muslim protests".
- DFT: "...Bodu Bala Sena, a monk-led extremist Buddhist organisation that has been at the forefront of recent anti-Muslim protests in the island".
- DFT: "He said that the Bodu Bala Sena group opposed Halal because they were essentially anti-Muslim".
- SL: "Matters have had been made worse due to the alleged anti Muslim sentiment created by Bodu Bala Sena, an extremist Buddhist sect..."
- LBO: "An extreme nationalist organization called 'Bodu Bala Sena', had been at the forefront of anti-Muslim activity in the island".
- These are not "reliable sources"; please see WP:RS. In addition, Wikipedia articles need to be written in a "neutral point of view", see WP:NPOV. It is a shame that there are so many publications in the Islamic countries that are calling this group "ani-Muslim" when the group itself says it does not promote violence against other religious groups. And it is a shame there are so many anonymous IP editors from Islamic countries like Pakistan, Sinagapore, and Qatar that are vandalizing this article. 115.67.39.165 (talk) 02:38, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- It's not that extraordinary:
- Bodu Bala Sena is the latest incarnation of Sinhalese Buddhist nationalism that has since independence targeted the island's ethnic minorities. First of all it was the Indian Tamils, then it was the Sri Lankan Tamils, now it's the turn of the Muslims.--obi2canibetalk contr 22:27, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Muslims are the most intolerant people on the planet. In every single Muslim country, the minorities are terribly oppressed. It's only natural to hate Muslims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.115.197 (talk) 01:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
What we see in the world today are non-Muslim peoples rising up and exacting their revenge on the Muslims who have horribly oppressed them, including Israel.
- Walkalia you should not be discouraged by adding constructive and non disruptive edits, be bold there will always be editors who think otherwise. WikiProject Sri Lanka supports the addition of constructive and non disruptive edits. Obi2canibe I think it is important that you should know that the vast majority of Sinhalese people do not think this way, nor are they extremists. However upon recently coming back from Sri Lanka I did realize of tensions between the Sinhalese and Moors/Muslims. This "extremism" is reciprocated by the Moors/Muslims against the Sinhalese, or at lest many Sinhalese feel so. Yet it is the Bodu Bala Sena who (do not represent the Sinhalese as a whole who) take it that step further.--Blackknight12 (talk) 02:17, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- At a time when the world situation is heating up between Buddhist/Muslim groups -- there are riots and deaths in Myanmar this week for example, and the Islamic groups in Sri Lanka plan a rally for later in the week -- the Wikipedia needs to take special care not to inflame the situation by calling groups "extremist" or making unsubstantiated claims about an organization.115.67.39.165 (talk) 02:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
- Walkalia you should not be discouraged by adding constructive and non disruptive edits, be bold there will always be editors who think otherwise. WikiProject Sri Lanka supports the addition of constructive and non disruptive edits. Obi2canibe I think it is important that you should know that the vast majority of Sinhalese people do not think this way, nor are they extremists. However upon recently coming back from Sri Lanka I did realize of tensions between the Sinhalese and Moors/Muslims. This "extremism" is reciprocated by the Moors/Muslims against the Sinhalese, or at lest many Sinhalese feel so. Yet it is the Bodu Bala Sena who (do not represent the Sinhalese as a whole who) take it that step further.--Blackknight12 (talk) 02:17, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- I didn't mean to imply that all/majority of Sinhalese were anti-Islam. The only thing the majority of Sinhalese are perhaps guilty of is remaining silent while BBS does these things in their name.--obi2canibetalk contr 17:09, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Can anyone add this halal label image?
I have added an image to the halal controversy section. There is a better image here that looks more like the label on the Sri Lanka food, but I don't know how to add a file from Indonesia wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.84.77.188 (talk) 15:38, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Done MediaJet talk 16:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Regarding the neutrality of the Article
Article is tend to be one sided now,I dont see any neutrality here. MediaJet talk 06:25, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree. There has been a huge amount of information just dumped into the article without any organization and without vetting sources. For one thing, there seems to be a collection of quotations cherry-picked from people who oppose Badu Bala Sena, as well as a new round of inflammatory banners. On the other hand, the new links might be a gold-mine of new information. For instance, there is some information about the origins of the group that I haven't had time to look at yet. I have seen conflicting information about the group's origin, but nothing from reliable sources. If you look at WP:NPOV, an article is supposed to provide information first, not opinion. You can't leave something out just because it is negative, but the negative portions have to be sourced and cannot be given undue weight.
- I would suggest that the article be reverted back to the last stable version, and the new information be vetted here and added back gradually. 115.84.92.252 (talk) 07:29, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Majority of the quotations come from the organization itself. They are not cherry picked from anyone else. If you find the banner 'history' and 'organization' inflammatory I'm not sure what I can say. Even 'attacks on media' and 'criticisms' are neutral and state what happened. There is no opinion presented -- the organization has expressed anti-Islam sentiments and attacked several Muslim things and these are reported in a neutral manner. SinhaYugaya (talk) 07:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- User:MediaJet and anonymous dynamic IP editor 115.84.77.xx - You can't just the say the article isn't neutral and remove referenced content. You have to explain your objections on the talk page. Neutrality is generally achieved by adding content form opposing views, it isn't achieved by removing referenced content. You actions look like you are using lack of neutrality as an excuse to delete. Your assertion that the article is dominated by quotations from people who oppose Bodu Bala Sena is not true. The majority of the article is about what Bodu Bala Sena have done or said. And your assertion that this version is stable is also not true - this artcile has been regularly edited sine mid March. The only difference between your chosen version and the version you object to is that it doesn't contain so much negative content. Wikipedia is not censored - if all the available reliable sources paint Bodu Bala Sena in a negative manner, then perhaps that's just the what they are.--obi2canibetalk contr 18:25, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Neutrality issues and the information added by Obi2canibe
User:Obi2canibe has added a great deal of very interesting information, however the neutrality of the article is now questioned. The article is about "Bodu Bada Sena", not "Criticism of Bodu Bada Sena". The article itself needs to be encyclopedic in tone, with the various viewpoints represented neutrally. For myself, I have formed no opinion about the group; I think it is a changing situation and many things are not written in stone, yet.
Also there is a huge problem that most of what they write about themselves is in Sinhala language. Google translate doesn't support Sinhala language yet, so it is very hard for the international audience to find out what they say about themselves. So we must be careful what we say about them, that it is accurate and from high quality sources.
For now, I am looking at Palestine Liberation Organization as an example of how to write the article.
I have posted Obi2canibe's text below. I would like to see the links organized into topics, and the sources checked to see if they can be used as reliable sources. For now I would like to concentrate on the halal meat issue, since it is currently in the news, and on vetting sources for the organizational structure of the group.
Obi2canibe's text
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Bodu Bala Sena (Sinhala: බොදු බල සේනා; English: Buddhist Power Force; BBS) is an extremist Sinhala-Buddhist organisation based in Colombo, Sri Lanka.[1][2] It has organised various campaigns against the country's minority Muslim and Christian communities which, according to the organisation, are needed to protect the country's Sinhalese-Buddhist character. The organisation's hard-line attitudes have drawn concern and criticism from inside and outside Sri Lanka.
The BBS held it's first national convention at the Bandaranaike Memorial International Conference Hall on 28 July 2012.[11] The convention passed five resolutions which, amongst other things, called for a ban on vasectomy/tubectomy in government health facilities; replacement of the various legal systems used in the country with a single legal system; preferential treatment in university admission for students who attended Buddhism classes; use of monks in government schools to teach history and other classes; and no solution for the country's ethnic problems which was based on race/religion.[12] The BBS held a protest at the Bangladeshi High Commission in Colombo on 4 October 2012 against the anti-Buddhist riots in Bangladesh.[13][14] Some of the protesters threw stones and bottles at the High Commission.[15][16] On 14 October 2012 BBS stormed a house in Batakettara, Homagama, Piliyandala where it alleges a Christian pastor called Dinesh and others from an evangelical group called The Name of Lord Jesus were trying to convert Sinhalese Buddhists.[17] The pastor was later released but following complaints from the pastor's family seven people were arrested on charges of abduction.[18] The following day BBS held a protest outside Piliyandala Police Station demanding that the seven arrested be released.[19][20] The BBS held a protest rally in Badulla on 25 October 2012 against against alleged conversion, vandalism of Buddhist sites and Islamic terrorism.[21] They held a protest at the Department of Archeology on 29 November 2012 urging the authorities to protect archaeological sites in the Eastern Province.[22] The BBS stormed Sri Lanka Law College in Hultsdorf, Colombo on 7 January 2013, alleging that exam results were being distorted in favour of Muslim students.[23] The allegations were not true but the college was forced delay new student registration by one week in order to investigate the allegations.[24][25]
President Mahinda Rajapaksa and government ministers met with the BBS on 27 January 2013 at Temple Trees, Colombo.[30][31] After the meeting the President issued a statement which urged the BBS and other monks to avoid conflicts with other religious communities but this statement was only issued in English, not Sinhala which is the language of most BBS supporters.[32] The opposition United National Party met with the BBS on 12 February 2013.[33] The BBS organised a meeting in Maharagama, Colombo on 17 February 2013 which was attended by around 16,000 people including 1,300 monks.[34] At the rally the BBS general secretary Galagoda Aththe Gnanasara stated "This is a government created by Sinhala Buddhists and it must remain Sinhala Buddhist. This is a Sinhala country, Sinhala government. Democratic and pluralistic values are killing the Sinhala race".[35] He also told the crowd at the rally that they "must become an unofficial civilian police force against Muslim extremism. These so-called democrats are destroying the Sinhala race".[36] At the rally the BBS unveiled the "Maharagama Declaration", a ten-point resolution which, other than an end to halal certification, called for a ban on Sri Lankan women going to work in the Middle East; end of mosque building financed by the Middle East; and ban some contraceptives.[37]
The BBS met with the of the Lieutenant General Jagath Jayasuriya, Major General Shavendra Silva and others from the Sri Lanka Army in late February 2013 to discuss extremist Muslim groups that the BBS alleged were operating in the country.[41] BBS also met with IGP N. K. Illangakoon from the police on 1 March 2013 to discuss the same issues.[41] Meth Sevana, the BBS' cultural and training centre in Pilana, Wanchawala, Galle District, was officially opened on 9 March 2013 by chief guest Defence Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapaksa, brother of President Mahinda Rajapaksa.[42][43] The BBS held a rally in Kandy on 17 March 2013 at which it announced that it would work to remove a 10th century mosque at the Kuragala Buddhist monastery complex in Ratnapura District.[44][45] At the rally BBS alleged that Muslim fundamentalists had taken over the site and destroyed Buddhist heritage.[46] BBS general secretary Galagoda Aththe Gnanasara accused the Muslim owned Fashion Bug and No Limit retail chains of converting its Buddhist Sinhalese employees to Islam.[47]
A nationwide protest by Muslims against the anti-Muslim campaigns being carried out by the BBS and JHU was held on 25 March 2013.[51] The protests were organised by the Muslim Rights Organization (MRO). [52] A hartal was observed in the Eastern Province on the same day against the BBS' anti-Muslim stance.[53] The Muslim owned Fashion Bug clothes shop in Pepiliyana, Colombo District was attacked on 28 March 2013 by a mob led by Buddhist monks.[54][55] Some reports suggested that BBS was behind the attack.[56] BBS denied any involvement and condemned the attack.[57][58]
In February of 2013 the BBS started a campaign against the halal certifying system in the country. In Sri Lanka halal certification is carried out by the All Ceylon Jamiyyathul Ulama (ACJU), the group of Islamic clerics, and contrary to allegations, is voluntary - certificates are only issued to businesses that request it.[61] The BBS initially threatened to take the ACJU to court.[62] Later they threatened to launch a campaign of agitation against halal certification, stating "they [the Mulsims] are trying to impose their ritualistic food products upon this country. The next plan is to bring about Sharia law. Already there is Muslim banking system in the country."[63] At the rally in Maharagama on 17 February 2013 the BBS announced that it was calling for the abolition of the halal certifying system, demanding that shops be cleared of halal meat by April.[64][65] In late February 2013 the ACJU offered to hand over responsibility for halal certifying to the government but this was rejected by the BBS who called for the complete eradication halal certification in the country.[66] The BBS slammed the ACJU as "arrogant, corrupt, thieving, underworld thugs".[67] The government also refused to take over halal certification due to the pressure exerted by the BBS.[68] The BBS stormed a meat inspection facility in Dematagoda run by Colombo Municipal Council (CMC) on 1 March 2013, alleging that young calves, pregnant cows and water buffaloes were being slaughtered at the premises.[69][70][71] The slaughter of calves is illegal in Colombo. The BBS were incorrect - the premises were being used by CMC officials to inspect meat prior to being distributed around the city.[24][72] Meetings were held between the ACJU, the Ceylon Chamber of Commerce (CCC) and Buddhist clergy and on 11 March 2013 a compromise was announced. The ACJU would stop adding the halal logo on products for local consumption but continue to use them for products being exported to Islamic countries where it is compulsory.[73][74] This offer was also rejected on 12 March 2013 by the BBS who continued to demand "the eradication of the entire Halal process".[75] The BBS went on to attack those responsible for the compromise. They accused Milinda Moragoda, a government minister, of "creating an unholy inter-religious alliance, and attempting to destroy our learned monks. These revered bhikkus are now in the grasp of infidels".[76] They branded the Buddhist clergy as "pseudo Buddhist leaders who never stood against Muslim extremism and Christian fundamentalism."[76] They accused the CCC chairman Susantha Ratnayake of having a "Buddha bar" at a hotel he runs.[76] The government pronounced on 13 March 2013 that the ACJU had no power to issue halal certificates and that a new way to certify halal products would need to be formulated.[77] On 17 March 2013 the BBS declared victory in it's battle against halal, saying it wouldn't talk about halal in the future.[78][79] The BBS general secretary Galagoda Aththe Gnanasara has accused the majority of the english language media in the country of "working on foreign agendas" and of being "kalu suddho" (traitors) to the Sinhala Buddhist cause.[78] A BBC News filming the BBS rally at Maharagama on 17 February 2013 were surrounded by a mob of twenty young men who threatened them and verbally abused a Sri Lankan member of the crew, accusing him of being a "traitor", having "foreign parents" and working for a "foreign conspirator" who was "against Sri Lanka".[64][80] The police seemed to be helping the crew by barricading the crew and ordering them not to leave.[64] The mob threatened it would "be the end" of the crew if they returned to Maharagama.[64] A reporter from the Muslim newspaper Navamini was also harassed at the rally by a mob who handed him over to the police who in turn detained the reporter for 4½ hours.[81] The BBS has received criticism from politicians, human rights groups, other Buddhist clergy and Muslims from Sri Lanka and abroad.
The views of the BBS have been disowned by the some of the mainstream Buddhist clergy. Anunayake Bellanwila Wimalaratana has stated that "The views of the Bodu Bala Sena are not the views of the entire Sangha community".[85] Opposition provincial councillor and MRO president Mujeebur Rahuman has stated that the unfettered activities of the BBS will mean an "ethnic riot will start between Sinhalese and Muslims".[64] The Eastern Provincial Council passed a motion unanimously on 20 February 2013 censuring the BBS for its anti-Muslim stance.[86] References
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More neutrality issues
- I don't know if you are familiar with how Wikipedia is edited. You cannot remove large amounts of data because you have a suspicion that it's not neutral. You can state what you find is not neutral and what references you have a issue with and we can move on from there. SinhaYugaya (talk) 07:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Lot of dumped nonsense,this is not the real countenance of the organization,this is biased to one side,however earlier version is much better than the current,even the earlier is not written in a neutral tone,Should Rewrite this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.157.206.171 (talk) 10:54, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- The purpose of Wikipedia is to report what reliable sources say not what you believe is the "real countenance" of the organization. SinhaYugaya (talk) 23:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Since the neutrality of this version has been challenged, you need to obtain consensus for these changes first. 115.84.79.166 (talk) 05:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, YOU need to obtain consensus first before you remove data. SinhaYugaya (talk) 05:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Please review WP:BRD. The cycle is bold, revert, discuss. A bold edit has been made, the edit has been reverted, or challenged, now you need to discuss the changes you want to make, and obtain consensus for the material you want to add. 115.84.79.166 (talk) 06:30, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Edit warring
The neutrality of the article has been questioned, however when at least three editors have attempted to revert back to the stable version, the disputed and inflammatory material keeps getting inserted over and over and over again. I have left messages on the talk pages of SinhaYugaya [4] [5] and Obi2canibe [6]. 115.84.79.166 (talk) 06:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Neutrality issues in proposed lede
The lede that has been proposed for this article is:
Bodu Bala Sena is a right-wing extremist Sinhala-Buddhist organisation based in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
or alternatively:
Bodu Bala Sena is an extremist Sinhala-Buddhist organisation based in Colombo, Sri Lanka.
There are several problems with this. First, the terms "right-wing" and "extremist" are highly inflammatory, and are hardly words the organization applies to itself. This certainly does not belong in the lede. See WP:Neutral point of view and WP:TERRORIST, also WP:No original research. If these attacks belong in the article at all, they needs attribution to reliable sources, and the person or organization making these attacks needs to be identified.
This is not an attack piece. It is an encyclopedia article. 115.84.79.166 (talk) 06:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)