Talk:Special effect

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Sept. 2: Girolamo Casanova undid the redirect, so the entry is now under "Special effects" again. I'm OK with this so long as the "visual effects" entry is redirected here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian Siano (talk • contribs) 23:29, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum August 2007:

I had a look at the "visual effects" page as well. It's not a very good entry. But some of its editors are lobbying to have the term "vfx" redirect there.

I'm going to propose redirecting the entry on "Special Effects" to a new, more comprehensive title: "Special Visual Effects." This seems right to me because it eliminates over-splitting the topic, and it's in line with the Academy Award category. If it's good enough for the Oscars, it's good enough for Wikipedia. I'll suggest redirecting terms a=such as "sfx," and "vfx" and the like to this new page, and I'll incorporate as much of the "visual effects" page as seems neccessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian Siano (talk • contribs) 18:13, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I'm looking over the article, and I think there are some serious changes to be made. The first two sections, the Introduction and Developmental History, are fine as they are.

But we then have two paragraphs on what could be called specific techniques (Compositing and Animation), while actual techniques such as bluescreen are links to other articles. The section on Audio Effects isn't really needed: the term "special effects" almost always refers to visual or mechanical effects in motion pictures or television, so the inclusion of _audio_ effects is a bit misleading.

The section on "live" effects ought to be expanded-- or an article on Stage Effects ought to be created or linked to.

In summary, I'd cut out everything between the Developmental History and the list of techniques. (Brian Siano)

Addendum: It seems to me that this article works best as a general overview and historical summary, with links to separate entries about particular techniques. Keeping that in mind, I cut the sections titled "Compositing," "Special Effects Animation," and "Audio Effects." "Compositing" was incoherent; it addressed something that's accomplished with many complex techniques, and focused solely on the use of computer compositing. The "special effects animation" section didn't fit, as it was a discussion of a particular special effects technique: it would be as a section under the entry on "Animation." "Audio effects" simply didn't belong, as "special effects" is commonly recognized as the creation of visuals.

It seems to me that this article works best as a general overview and historical summary, with links to separate entries about particular techniques. (Brian Siano)

We need to organize articles related to this one to make them more consistent in titling, wording, and structure, and maybe consolidate some (like practical effect and physical effect). --Tysto 20:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• special effect
• visual effects
• front projection effect
• rear projection effect
• physical effects
• practical effect
• in-camera effect
• bluescreen effect
• miniature effect
• computer-generated imagery
• stunt

A Brief History of Special effects was merged with this page. Judgesurreal777 22:22, 4 March 2006 (UTC) Special Effects Animation was also merged with this article Judgesurreal777 22:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am not very happy with the mergers because it is merging two subjects that are not necessarily related. Also being redirected from a search on "trick photography" to this entry on hollywood SPFX, or SFX or whatever the author thinks its supposed to be called, is not very helpful if I want to know some specific history about 19centruy photography techniques. sorry but I dont have any positive suggestions.

In my free time I can add to this article. I have spent years studying special effects. I was the one who wrote the developmental history, (or BRIEF history, as I titled it) and many additions. I can expand it when given time. -Mountnbiker310

To clarify the Star Wars effects, Spaceship shots were done using a motion control gimble, not stop motion. Stop motion was used in most of the creature and land-based model effects, but motion control and blue/green screen was used for 99% of the 'in space' shots. The two techniques are completely different. Bigpinkthing 15:24, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I just did a fairly extensive rewrite of the entry. It needed it: frankly, any history of effects that doesn't mention Georges Melies isn't worth considering. I can't say that my version's perfect, but I think it's an improvement.

I would _strongly_ suggest that y'all seek out John Brosnan's history _Movie Magic_. It was published in 1974, just before the new wave created by Lucas and friends, and it is _the_ definitive history of effects up to that point. I'll be glad to come back and see what I can contribute.

(August 2006)Brian Siano (brian@briansiano.com)

Here is the removed section. I found it to be confusing, poorly written and not particularly relevant. Audiodude 17:43, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The era of high-definition The newest film format on the rise, High Def (or HD) is a way of watching flm/tv that is much better quality, due to the fact that it utilizes hundreds of thousands more pixles than standard DV. This format is well on its way to achieving the holy grail of film making (making digital video look like film) and with HDDVD and Blu-Ray formats of HD soon to be on the market, it seems unstoppable. It is now commercially avalible for under $3,000. As new as HD is, a new format has spawned off of it, "HDV." This format, although much less expensive (avalible for about $1,000), has several problems. Many major brands use different subdivisons of HDV (HDV1, HDV2.) HDV2 cameras are not compatible with footage shot in HDV1, and conversions are not possible. Low-budget filmmakers are having to confine themselves to shooting, editing, and printing to tape all on one type of camera.

Can a search on "vfx" be redirected to the Visual effects page, instead of the Special effects page?

Thanks, --JT 19:19, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The oldest "landmark" movie listed is The Birds, from 1963. Special effects have been around for a long time, though. The list focuses mainly on advances in animatronics and CG, and ignores movies like The Invisible Man (1933 film), The Ten Commandments (1956 film), the original King Kong, and The Lost World (for the matte process and for stop motion animation developments). In fact, I'm not even sure why they bothered listing the new King Kong for "Motion Capture". Hadn't that already been done in Lord of the Rings with the Gollum character?

Also, how come no one here mentions Fritz Lang's Metropolis?! His use of extremely detailed drawings and models and camera manipulation was extraordinary for the time. I wish I knew enough to really do it justice in this article--anyone else know more than me? --Torie

I removed several films from the list because they really didn't qualify as "landmark effects" films. Many are fine films, but the "landmarks" are either trivial or inflated. I clarified what a 'landmark' film might be, and here are the cuts:

• Amadeus (Old age stipple, era effects)
• Independence Day (Digital effects combined with small-scale models)
• The Day After Tomorrow (Prolonged digital shots, playing with "weather effects")
• Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Motion capture from a 2D image)
• Star Wars series (Creation of original, practical effects, "destruction" effects, pioneer in spaceships models, motion control photography)

(I reduced this to "Motion control photography": the Dykstraflex was the film's main innovation.)

• Superman (Human flight)
• The Terminator (Digital effects)
• Buddy (Audio-Animatronics) (Brian Siano)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.197.194.213 (talk) 02:58, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

I recently clarified the definitions on the two types of SFX: optical and mechanical. I added "(also called visual or photographic effects)" after optical effects and "(also called physical or practical effects)" after mechanical effects. (See Special Effects: Titanic and Beyonds online glossary) I've been working on a school research project over SFX and, judging from my research, these terms do indeed seem to be synonymous.

Also, I pretty much entirely reversed the "CGI versus SFX" section (now called "CGI and SFX"). Before, the article stated that CGI effects were NOT special effects because they are not produced on-set during filming. This was inconsistent with the definition of SFX both within and outside of the article. It did establish that CGI effects are not mechanical effects, but they are indeed SFX because they fit into the category of optical effects - which involves altering a photographic image.

Oh, and lastly, sorry about not filling in the Edit Summary field on some of my changes. I'm kind of a Wikipedia editing newbie. Jedimatt 05:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the "CGI and SFX" section entirely (but I copied it here for reference). It doesn't make any substantive point. I've never heard anyone assert that CGI effects are not special effects: this section seems to address an argument that nobody of any importance ever makes. Here's the section I cut:

"Effects that are created via computers are known as CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) effects and they fit into the category of optical effects - a subset of SFX - because they involve altering a photographic image. Some people claim that because CGI effects are not produced during filming on-set (as in bullet hits, fire, flame, and explosions, wind, rain, etc.) that they are not SFX at all. However, as discussed above, effects produced during filming on-set are a different subset of SFX known as mechanical or practical effects. Other categories of SFX do exist, and CGI effects are still SFX." (Brian Siano (brian@briansiano.com)

Does Wikipedia have any kind of list of the major special effects houses? If so, can it be linked to from this article? Robert K S 05:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a list of visual effects houses in the visual effects article. Jedimatt 21:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Robert K S 04:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right now this is horribly managed, and the two articles have overlap - often misplaced overlap! Someone with more expertise in this field needs to go over the two articles separate their content out more appropriately. Girolamo Savonarola 19:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I posted this elsewhere, but my position is this: the current "Special Effects" article ought to be the article, with "visual effects" redirecting here. I've outlined my reasons above. Brian Siano 23:31, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The real problem is that there is a misconception of the use of term, combined with inconsistent usage in the past. Special effects originally referred to all out-of-the ordinary shots that required the use of specialized technicians to execute the shot. This varied from pyrotechnics to model work to matte paintings. While some of this was post-intensive, most of it was in-camera. As processes like bluescreen advanced, the general field continued to be called special effects until the late 80's-early 90's, when the more post-intensive departments began to distinguish themselves as "visual effects" to differentiate themselves from on-set special effects. This is the current practice and can be evidenced by a credits list of any recent effect-intensive film; special effects now tends to refer to things like pyrotechnics, artificial weather, and other unusual processes done during the shooting of the film. Visual effects usually is considered post-work. Special effects, however, can also still be considered the umbrella term encompassing both departments, although this is now more historical than in practice. Girolamo Savonarola 01:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This brings us back to your earlier point-- namely, what's the most commonly used term? There may be distinctions "within the field." But in terms of genuinely common usage, "special effects" encompasses nearly every method of achieving illusions on film.

(For a time, I tried to come up with a really good set of "types" of special effects. The list included four broad categories: opticals, derived from photography; mechanicals, derived from stagecraft; animation and editing, which are unique to motion pictures; and CGI, which has superseded the above. Thing is, with any set of distinctions, one could always find exceptions (are forced perspective and the Schufftan process mechanical, as they're live on set, or optical, as they're derived from the conventions of photography?). And there's the question of mechanics in make-up, like Rick Baker's and Rob Bottin's early 1980s work: is that make-up, or special effects? So I abandoned the idea of trying to classify things too much, and stuck to a general overview.)

So how do you feel about bringing the visual effects entry under "special effects?" Brian Siano 19:52, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]