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:I think you’ve misunderstood what constitutes vandalism. [[User:Zenomonoz|Zenomonoz]] ([[User talk:Zenomonoz|talk]]) 22:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
:I think you’ve misunderstood what constitutes vandalism. [[User:Zenomonoz|Zenomonoz]] ([[User talk:Zenomonoz|talk]]) 22:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

== I just had to add this ==

LOL [[User:Larry Sanger|Larry Sanger]] ([[User talk:Larry Sanger|talk]]) 06:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 06:28, 19 November 2023

Former featured article candidateElon Musk is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Good articleElon Musk has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 4, 2021Good article nomineeListed
July 24, 2021Peer reviewNot reviewed
August 23, 2022Featured article candidateNot promoted
November 1, 2022Good article reassessmentKept
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 15, 2021.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Elon Musk lost $16.3 billion in a single day, the largest in the history of the Bloomberg Billionaires Index?
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article


Frequently asked questions

If you cannot show the answers, please try the desktop view.
Q1: Can I write a message to Elon Musk here? (No.)
A1: No. The "Talk:Elon Musk" page is not for writing messages to Musk. It is only for discussing changes to the Wikipedia article about him. Writing a message to Musk here is pointless and disruptive, and such messages will be removed as an improper use of the page.
Q2: Can you update the article to call Musk a "business magnet"? (No.)
A2: No. Musk once suggested in an interview that his Wikipedia article be changed to describe him as a "business magnet" rather than a magnate. The tone of that interview was not very serious; he also claimed to be an alien.[1] Wikipedia doesn't have to do what Musk says, and this request has been made and declined dozens of times already. New requests may be removed without a response so that other discussions are not disrupted.
Q3: Should Musk be identified as South African in the opening sentence?
A3: Musk is a US citizen (since 2002) born and raised in South Africa, and also acquired Canadian citizenship via his mother. Including these nationalities in the opening sentence in a balanced way would be complex, and the consensus is that they should instead be explained later in the lead.
Q4: Can you change "Tesla CEO" to "Tesla Technoking"?
A4: No, because he is still CEO according to company records and that is a common corporate title that readers will understand, unlike "Technoking". The goal of the article is to inform people, which would be hindered by raising a confusing technicality.
Q5: Should the mention of Errol Musk having an interest in an emerald mine be removed in view of Elon's denials?
A5: While Elon today vehemently disputes any history with an emerald mine, he formerly accepted and even confirmed it. Specifically, a 2014 report originally printed in the San Jose Mercury News (and cited in the article) stated that Errol Musk had "a stake in" a mine. Elon affirmed his father's mine involvement in an interview with Jim Clash, a career interviewer of public figures, that was published by Forbes and withdrawn without explanation a few months later. Elon biographer Ashlee Vance likewise confirmed Errol's mining interest, with Elon's objections but not denials, in a 2020 interview report with Elon. Errol has stated that he received hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of emeralds from his dealings.
Q6: Should "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" be "Bachelor of Science" instead?
A6: No. Although it may seem counterintuitive, "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" is the degree that the University of Pennsylvania (among other schools) awards.
Q7: Should the article acknowledge doubts about Musk's academic record?
A7: Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons requires that negative information about a person must be attributed to reliable published sources, and excludes both self-published sources (e.g. Twitter threads) and court trial records. The article states that sources disagree about when Musk obtained bachelor degrees, and that he did not attend Stanford for any significant amount of time. Any doubts beyond this require appropriate sources.
Q8: Why doesn't this article describe Musk as an engineer?
A8: Musk is chief engineer of SpaceX, a title that applies within the company and that the press regularly mentions. He is not a professional engineer, a distinction within engineering that carries certain legal privileges in the United States, nor has he completed an engineering training program, nor has he ever been hired as an engineer. The article therefore does not include any of these claims. It does note that, from time to time, Musk has made initial product proposals at his companies that his trained engineers then research and develop. He does hold IEEE Honorary Membership.
Q9: Why doesn't the article identify Musk as co-founder of PayPal?
A9: Because that could mislead readers that Musk was involved in the creation of the PayPal service and brand, when he was not. Instead, as the article states, he co-founded a company (X.com Corporation) that acquired the company that had developed PayPal (Confinity Inc.) and then renamed itself as PayPal, Inc.
Q10: Why does this page include criticism of Musk's actions and stances?
A10: Musk is criticized/praised a lot in many reliable sources, and as such we need to talk about these criticisms and praise. To quote from Wikipedia's policy on a neutral point of view, articles must represent "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."
Q11: Why is this a "good article" when some people consider Musk a bad person?
A11: "Good article" on Wikipedia refers to the way the article is written, not what kind of person Musk is. Good articles have been found to satisfy Wikipedia editorial standards for accuracy, verifiability and balanced presentation.
Q12: Why doesn't this page call Musk African American?
A12: African Americans are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. Reliable sources do not use this term to describe Musk.
References
  1. ^ "Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk". The Joe Rogan Experience. September 6, 2018. Event occurs at 9:53. Retrieved October 2, 2020 – via YouTube.

Ben Brody defamation lawsuit

Elon Musk is being sued for suggesting a random jewish student (Ben Brody) was a psy-op neo-nazi actor, with Brody becoming a target of online abuse. Echos of the 'pedo guy' defamation case. Might be worth including, now or later. Zenomonoz (talk) 22:42, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend writing up some specific text that you want to propose adding to see if consensus supports it. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Already covered in the article. See Elon Musk#Legal matters. QRep2020 (talk) 08:22, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers. Zenomonoz (talk) 07:17, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This has been confirmed to be a lie. 2603:8000:8A00:221:0:0:0:1004 (talk) 17:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2023

The first things said about Elon is that he is a businessman and investor. Before that the first thing that should be said is that he is an engineer first and foremost. 63.224.47.5 (talk) 05:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Nah, for biographical articles we put the things someone is most known for in the first sentence. What is Musk known for having personally engineered? If there is anything, barely anyone knows of it, whereas he has been involved in multiple high profile companies that almost everyone is aware of Cannolis (talk) 05:46, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That was removed after several long discussions, there's no consensus to include. Feel free to check the archives. DFlhb (talk) 06:37, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 November 2023

Please add that Elon is an antisemite. Thank you Sitnikovi1983 (talk) 20:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk-antisemitism-white-people/index.html https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/antisemites-are-saying-elon-musk-side-latest-tweets-jews-rcna125617 https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/16/elon-musk-calls-antisemitic-tweet-the-actual-truth.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sitnikovi1983 (talk • contribs) 21:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 21:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure!
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/15/media/elon-musk-antisemitism-white-people/index.html https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/antisemites-are-saying-elon-musk-side-latest-tweets-jews-rcna125617
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/16/elon-musk-calls-antisemitic-tweet-the-actual-truth.html Sitnikovi1983 (talk) 21:08, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unless I missed a bit, none of those sources say that Musk is an antisemite. We already say in the lead that he has made statements that include antisemitic conspiracy theories. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 21:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
His endorsement of antisemitic tweets doesn't make him an antisemite? Sitnikovi1983 (talk) 21:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are you asking for my personal view? We can chat off-wiki. The lack of reliable sources (a large body of them, preferably) saying that Musk is an antisemite means that Wikipedia should not describe him as one. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 21:16, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I got one more....
Gab said they're happy they red-pilled Musk into asking JQ
https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2023/11/16/elon-musk-endorses-antisemitic-conspiracy-theory-about-jews-welcoming-in--hordes-of-minorities-
The official account for Gab.com, an antisemitic social media website used by the Pittsburgh synagogue gunman, celebrated that Musk was beginning to ask the," JQ," seemingly short for “Jewish Question," a term frequently used by antisemites.
“We’re winning hearts and minds,” Gab CEO Andrew Torba wrote on his platform. Sitnikovi1983 (talk) 21:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
When it comes to living people Wikipedia has an additional policy, the Biographies of living persons policy, that puts different restriction about what we can say about living people vs say a Roman general. These restrictions apply to all pages on wikipedia, including talk pages, which make it hard to have a discussion about calling a living person something which WP:RS do not. See WP:OR for more on why we won't be able to put something like that in the article. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just because Musk endorsed a tweet which you think is anti-semitic does not mean that he is one 209.171.88.199 (talk) 17:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2023

In citation 436, change date “2002” to “2022” 2A00:23CC:B582:DF01:F1AE:CE5B:1A:8780 (talk) 13:12, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

done. Slatersteven (talk) 13:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy theorist

See also: Talk:Elon Musk/Archive 18 § Conspiracy theorist in the lead sentence


In my personal opinion, Elon Musk shares and agrees with conspiracy theories to the extent that he should be called one in the opening sentence. Death Editor 2 (talk) 13:38, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Time for an RFC? Slatersteven (talk) 13:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
is it is so significant compared to everything else he has done to be called a conspiracy theorist? 145.224.65.10 (talk) 13:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think by the fact that he is one of the world's richest men and the fact that he keeps spending conspiracy theories makes it notable enough to be put in the first sentence. Death Editor 2 (talk) 13:47, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Has he come up with one on his own? Or does he just agree with some existing theories that you personally deem as conspiratorial? Also why does your personal view matter? 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:4254:39EC:FE3E:7386 (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
he regularly replies and agrees with neo nazis and other far right nutjobs on Twitter (currently known as X). he does not come up with them sure but he sure as hell agrees with them. Death Editor 2 (talk) 14:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your personal views being injected into the article seriously detract from the credibility and non-partisan approach this website needs Woodburn127 (talk) 17:04, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a "personal view". See this as one example. Death Editor 2 should provide RS, and so should you. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Vice is not a reliable source. 24.28.25.225 (talk) 21:52, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
agreeing with a theory you deem conspiratorial, does not make one a conspiracy theorist himself. Vice is a far left website. One guy on it, writes an opinion piece, even where he does not call him an actual conspiracy theorist and you're eager to edit his wiki bio. Shamelessly partisan. No wonder wiki is developing a bad rep as a left leaning partisan website. 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:4254:39EC:FE3E:7386 (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
believing that Jews control the media/the world isn't conspiratorial? Death Editor 2 (talk) 17:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Provide one source where he said this actually. Not where he expressed an agreement, followed by an explanation. Are you aware that Ben Shapiro-a very prominent media Jewish personality- is defending him on this issue? Why does he not think Elon is a conspiracy theorist but you do? 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:4254:39EC:FE3E:7386 (talk) 17:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
'How can I be racist? I have a black friend'-tier defense, and remember the time he replied to eric formerly the artist or whatever his name is? Death Editor 2 (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It would be, if there was just one black friend to speak of. Elon musk is defended regularly by Jewish folks who believe had he not taken over the X, Israel's view would have been censored completely. So the verdict on him being an antisemitic conspiracy theorist is far from clear. It may be your view but far from consensus view. 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:4254:39EC:FE3E:7386 (talk) 17:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
there have been antisemites who support Israel. see John Hagee for an example of one. Death Editor 2 (talk) 18:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This unsourced speculation is unhelpful. There is no way the old Twitter regime would have censored any Israeli government accounts or any other user for pro-Israel sentiment. Use reliable sources to make your point, or stop posting your personal opinions. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder why neo nazis are praising the 'you have said an actual truth' tweet, must be for reasons completely unrelated to the two tweets above. Death Editor 2 (talk) 18:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
why are you guys keep picking the 1 reply? what about 4 reply follow that sentence? 171.248.155.232 (talk) 19:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia isn't your smear platform. Find a job at Vice if you want to libel people with impunity. 2001:5B0:261A:3868:CDAA:1923:18BD:D4AA (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That isn't a noun commonly used in passing by RS upon first mention of Musk (e.g. "businessman and conspiracy theorist Elon Musk announced today that..."). Show us a plurality of sources that do and it can be added, otherwise it belongs elsewhere in the lead. sure, it's "notable" that the richest man spreads conspiracy theories, but only in the colloquial sense ("noteworthy"); but the first sentence is about what makes him notable in the Wikipedia sense. DFlhb (talk) 13:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC) [reply]
This article's first sentence is about what makes him notable in the Wikipedia sense. OK
But, Google search results return Talk:Elon Musk/Archive 18 § Conspiracy theorist in the lead sentence
"Elon Reeve Musk is a businessman, investor and 'conspiracy' theorist. Musk is the founder, chairman, CEO and chief technology officer of SpaceX; ..."
It is because, is included in the head template of Wikipedia which is passed to search engine crawlers?
It is asked at [1]https://x.com/Culture_Crit/status/1725846628198662158?s=20 Flāvidus (talk) 14:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Culture Moron is a far right nutjob and is not a reliable source. Death Editor 2 (talk) 14:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He's literally the world's most famous and influential conspiracy theorist, peddling a constant stream of really extreme, antisemitic and white supremacist conspiracy theories[2]. It clearly belongs in the opening sentence. In fact coverage of him in relation to Twitter mostly focuses on his promotion of hate speech and conspiracy theories. --Tataral (talk) 14:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Constant stream"? What conspiracy theories did he agree with in, say, October? As far as I can tell he will *very occasionally* say "Yeah!" to someone stating a conspiracy theory (the only one I know of that's a clear statement of him agreeing with an actual conspiracy theory being him agreeing that "Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them"). 2A02:C7C:B08B:D700:9426:D004:8B07:F475 (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely is a constant stream. We have seen him positively commenting or quote tweeting on far-right tweets regarding great replacement, jewish control, transgender issues etc. for over a year now. He has quote tweeted Tucker Carlson and What is a Woman. He is the most followed account on the internet and this stuff is thus appearing in loads of peoples' feeds every week. He is doing this on his own social media platform, which he has literally bought because he didn't like the the fact social media platforms have terms of service, which often don't allow far-right conspiracy theories. Him buying Twitter has been a gigantic part of what gave him headlines over the last year, so it is definitely central to his persona. LenoJeno (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
the problem you and all the other partisan editors seem to have is understanding that things you don't like aren't conspiracy theories. a conspiracy theory is something with a set meaning. desperately wanting a smear in the opening to this article doesn't mean "conspiracy theorist" suddenly changes its meaning to "person that says things i dislike". hope this clears things up for you! 73.77.162.41 (talk) 22:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tucker Carlson has been jewish questioning since he moved to Twitter/X, and What is a Woman is a film that argues that the entire medical industry is lying to you and trying to "butcher your children for profit".
Those things definitely fit the definition of conspiracy theories. You are the one who doesn't want to accept that. LenoJeno (talk) 00:03, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Conspiracy theorist" is not a clearly defined term and should definitely not be in the lede. The majority of people believe a conspiracy theory of some sort or other (e.g. "Epstein was murdered"), so simply believing some conspiracy theories doesn't justify the label. 2A02:C7C:B08B:D700:9426:D004:8B07:F475 (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regularly supporting conspiracy theories by agreeing with them makes it a viable characteristic. It's gotten news coverage from reputable sources, meaning it's certainly not a small part of his brand at this point: https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/17/elon-musk-x-antisemitic-conspiracy-theory-actual-truth/ ASpacemanFalls (talk) 15:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it sure is weird how i'm seeing "numerous conspiracy theories" being attributed to why this label is necessary and yet it's only articles about this one tweet that keep being offered as evidence! 73.77.162.41 (talk) 22:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's a well-defined term and perfectly fine to use. For example if a person is mainly known as a writer/influencer/commentator, and they're documented as spreading conspiracy theories by a handful of sources, IMO that'd be enough to put that in the lead sentence. Just don't think that's the case here because Musk's notability lies elsewhere. DFlhb (talk) 16:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Publically agreeing with some of the most historically harmful conspiracy theories such as "Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites"[3]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 is definitely worth noting in the first sentence. This is not some "Epstine was murdered", or "Trump pretended to have covid" conspiracy theory, this is massive stuff. LenoJeno (talk) 21:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
> historically harmful conspiracy theories such as "Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites"
Citation that this comment is historical and/or harmful. 24.28.25.225 (talk) 21:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust LenoJeno (talk) 00:04, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion is also “far right” since he’s a libertarian? 79.135.104.15 (talk) 15:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not. He is not primarily a conspiracy theorist. He is not most well known for this. The wiki should maintain objectivity and lead with the most important information. Opening should be something like Elon Reeve Musk (/ˈiːlɒn/ EE-lon; born June 28, 1971) is a South African-American businessman, investor, entrepreneur, and wealthiest person in the world. Feel free to add conspiracy later in the article. OmicronCoder (talk) 15:55, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reposting and supporting online conspiracy theories have been a huge part of his persona for more than a year now. It is absolutely one of the first things people speak about when they talk of him. I cannot tell you when I have last had or listened to a conversation about Elon which was just about tesla or spacex etc. At the moment, they *always* revolve around him going further and further right wing by the minute. LenoJeno (talk) 21:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He is a whistleblower and an "epic memester", too. Better put that in the lead sentence. BronzeSpider (talk) 21:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's maybe how you feel about it. He clearly is NOT renowned for conspiracy theories. If you want to mention his twitter activity, you should do it somewhere else in the article. LibIchtnatz (talk) 02:31, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Calling Elon Musk a “conspiracy theorist” is so lunatic it would just confirm Wikipedia can’t be trusted when it comes to politically sensitive issues. 5.91.7.98 (talk) 18:11, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
IMO liking a tweet that covered multiple topics shouldn't auto-tag someone as adhering to one of those topics (which one? were they just being supportive of an opinion? what does a like actually mean?). I shudder to think of some of the things I could be accused of for Reddit upvotes that made me laugh before I'd finished reading. :-)
Also I think that particular term should be used for people who are primarily known for pedaling such theories, and that doesn't really fit here. Maybe a different term could be found? Panglossolalia (talk) 22:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oct 23 https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-sued-falsely-claiming-man-fed-posing-neo-nazi-1234836778/, https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-israel-hamas-war-disinformation-x/ 2 should do. Slatersteven (talk) 15:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • There is not enough out there to say in wikivoice that Musk is a conspiracy theorist. There is enough to say that he has platformed them and neo-Nazis. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Muboshgu, what exactly Musk said to be considered let alone misinformation but specifically "transphobic" and "anti-Semitic"? I'm quite curious because I'm pretty well informed of Musk's statements and I don't remember him saying anything remotely transphobic or anti-Semitic. Because what I saw was clear and serious vandalism and slander/defamation based on nothing but feelings, and yet you said it was true. 151.38.11.212 (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Here is musk *openly* agreeing with antisemitism: [4]https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 LenoJeno (talk) 20:59, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "The ADL unjustly attacks the majority of the West, despite the majority of the West supporting the Jewish people and Israel. This is because they cannot, by their own tenets, criticize the minority groups who are their primary threat. It is not right and needs to stop."
    Ok? Now show me the anti-Semitic support part. 151.38.11.212 (talk) 21:01, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    How about reading the actual tweet I linked?
    He called the following statement the "actual truth"
    "Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them. I'm deeply disinterested in giving the tiniest shit now about western Jewish populations coming to the disturbing realization that those hordes of minorities that support flooding their country don't exactly like them too much."
    The burden of proof is on you to explain how this is not antisemitic. LenoJeno (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    criticizing a mafia-like organization isn't anti-Semitism??? 73.77.162.41 (talk) 22:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Outside of a certain political wing, a negligle amount of people would consider it part of his most notable activities.
The theories are, by nature, disputed. The fact he supports theories with notable frequency is also disputed.
Disputed opinions supported by further disputed opinions have no place in a lead. Please work to forget bias and improve objectivity on the platform. 86.1.103.91 (talk) 16:40, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's a verified fact that Elon Musk supports and spreads various far right and anti-semitic Conspiracy theories on twitter. So no idea what you are talking about. Death Editor 2 (talk) 17:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Definition of conspiracy theorist: a person who proposes or believes in a conspiracy theory-
Where is the irrefutable proof that Elon believes in a theory which is also considered a conspiracy theory? For example: has he ever expressed an opinion stating that he believes that we never landed on moon? Or are you mostly going by innuendoes mentioned in famous magazines, which in turn are simply opinions of people who hate Musk, and whose counters have also been given by other famous opinion makers? 2605:8D80:667:CAD8:2AFF:DF19:B6B9:A909 (talk) 19:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's interesting that prominent jews are defending Musk. And no, Bill Ackman is not a neo Nazi
https://twitter.com/BillAckman/status/1725898682438979972?t=6j67gPlj_qG7xSh-HkwoIA&s=19 2605:8D80:667:CAD8:2AFF:DF19:B6B9:A909 (talk) 19:57, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-Semitic like for example? 151.38.11.212 (talk) 20:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here is Musk *openly* agreeing with antisemitism: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1724908287471272299 LenoJeno (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely that statement is followed by more statements later and precisely that complete take is defended first by Ben Shapiro and then Bill Ackman: Two very prominent jewish people. Now unless we're now insinuating that Bill and Ben are defending an antisemite.
At best you have a highly disputed case but not a clear cut, unquestionable one. 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:6BDF:BA09:1A8C:59FA (talk) 21:46, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No amount of follow ups can defend just blatantly agreeing with a statement like: "Jewish communties have been pushing the exact kind of dialectical hatred against whites" LenoJeno (talk) 00:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's just your opinion, unfortunately. Wiki demands a consensus view and reliable and undisputed sources. 2607:FEA8:79D8:5700:6BDF:BA09:1A8C:59FA (talk) 02:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, this is not a general consensus over time.Kmccook (talk) 04:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is supposed to be a place based on facts and sources. We all know it's not. But by bringing the biases to the forefront, no one takes it seriously anymore. Just like Open AI and other institutions, it will crumble if Wikipedia uses it's own rules to enforce their own entrenched biases. Musk is no "Conspiracy Theorist" it's anyway, in the least, a loaded meaningless term. Wake up Wikipedia no one trusts you anymore. --Massintel (talk) 03:35, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If there's any part of the article that is not supported by facts or sources, please quote it and most extended-confirmed editors will be happy to remove it. You can view the edit log for the article and see multiple occasions where this has happened over the past few days. TROPtastic (talk) 06:07, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elon is not far right, he voted for biden

Please stop lying to people. Elon is not far right, has never said he is far right and is a very reasonable person not associated with the far right or far left 2603:8080:3500:4DD3:E988:6AF9:A8BD:1724 (talk) 16:35, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do RS say? Slatersteven (talk) 16:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He would never say that he is, would he?
"Not associated"? Elon Musk is a Far Right Activist, The Far Right Is Loving Elon Musk's Comments About Jewish Groups Corrupting 'the West' – Muboshgu (talk) 16:43, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus on whether Vice is a reliable source and The Atlantic, though considered generally reliable, has a warning attached to it that it doesn't clearly delineate opinion from reporting. This is clearly a case of someone writing an op-ed.
You are quoting editorials. These aren't facts, they're opinions. 173.178.144.231 (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is correct. A fact. He is not far right. It’s very obvious. 2603:8000:8A00:221:0:0:0:1004 (talk) 17:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Richard Spencer (a prominent neo-nazi) also voted for Biden, simply because someone votes for Biden it does not mean someone is not far-right. Also his views have changed overtime. Richard B. Spencer HAHAHAHAAPPLE (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why so many lies and misinformation?

A lot of lies and misinformation. Should really fix this. 2603:8000:8A00:221:0:0:0:1004 (talk) 17:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SUch as? Slatersteven (talk) 17:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
People saying he supports Neo-Nazis and that he should be labelled a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence of this article for agreeing with disputed ideas. Wikipedia editors can’t seem to put their personal biases to the side 209.171.88.199 (talk) 17:24, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All being discussed above. And we do not currently say that. Slatersteven (talk) 17:25, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He has expressed support for nazi adjacent antisemitic conspiracy theories, it is not a reach. HAHAHAHAAPPLE (talk) 23:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This talk page is for discussion by people who are not extended confirmed. Since Wikipedia has hundreds of thousands of editors (including you and me), it may happen that someone posts an opinion on a talk page that seems extreme. However, getting a change made on the article (especially calling Elon Musk a "conspiracy theorist" which no consensus of WP:RS does) has a higher bar than allowing people to share their opinions. TROPtastic (talk) 06:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PP

Stop the back-and-forth editing, or I will ask for full PP. Slatersteven (talk) 17:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PP would be good, temporarily. Edit warring is occurring because right wing Twitter accounts are claiming that Wikipedia calls him a conspiracy theorist in the first sentence. Anybody can edit Wikipedia but this edit was quickly reversed. Zenomonoz (talk) 22:22, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

labeling people is not wikipedia's business

if you want to be a trust worthy source of truth. if it is your opinion, you should clearly state it. no wonder schools never use wikipedia as a credible source of information. Zhangjzh (talk) 17:28, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We go by what wp:rs say. Slatersteven (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Which states:
" Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (invited op-eds and letters to the editor from notable figures) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact. Human interest reporting is generally not as reliable as news reporting, and may not be subject to the same rigorous standards of fact-checking and accuracy (see junk food news). "
Opinion pieces and editorials are not reliable sources, except as a source for what the author of that article has written. BronzeSpider (talk) 22:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sockpuppetry is against Wikipedia policies. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Remove "Elon Supports White Pride" vandalism

He did not post his support of white pride groups or use the phrase white pride. Be honest and don't editorialize. BronzeSpider (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you’ve misunderstood what constitutes vandalism. Zenomonoz (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just had to add this

LOL Larry Sanger (talk) 06:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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