Talk:Whitney Houston: Difference between revisions

Please start new sections at the BOTTOM of this page

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Whitney Houston article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 30 days

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Whitney Houston. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Whitney Houston at the Reference desk.

This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Musicians B‑class This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as High-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. African diaspora B‑class High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject African diaspora, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of African diaspora on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.African diasporaWikipedia:WikiProject African diasporaTemplate:WikiProject African diasporaAfrican diaspora articles B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. R&B and Soul Music B‑class High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.R&B and Soul MusicWikipedia:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicTemplate:WikiProject R&B and Soul MusicR&B and Soul Music articles B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. New Jersey B‑class Low‑importance This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard. Please join in the discussion.New JerseyWikipedia:WikiProject New JerseyTemplate:WikiProject New JerseyNew Jersey articles B This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A news item involving Whitney Houston was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 12 February 2012.

Why was information about her death removed from the lead? That is definitely lead material, per WP:LEAD. Are editors waiting for the results for how she died? Flyer22 (talk) 17:51, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article is written from the long view. Her death is big news now, but there is no reason to think it will be a notable part of her life. It might be though and we will have wait to see that. Currently the first sentence refers to her in the past tense and that is not likly to be interpreted any other way then she is dead. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 20:45, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How in the hell is her death not a notable part of her life? If she had died late in life from natural causes, you'd have a point, but look at the lede sections for people like Elvis Presley, Kurt Cobain, Dee Dee Ramone, Amy Winehouse and others. 184.7.167.28 (talk) 21:04, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent examples. I stand corrected. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 05:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that death should be in lede, it dominated national and international news reports for three or four days. I've restored info I added a couple of days ago.Lahaun (talk) 03:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with restoring her death to the lead - the issue, Richard-o-E, is not that people won't interpret correctly that she died - we have the date of death in the first line - it is that she was a very public person who died at a young age. That early death is notable, and will likely always be a part of her story - probably even more so when the expected details come out of how she died. See Heath Ledger, Michael Jackson, Amy Winehouse, Clarence Clemons and sadly many, many more. I do think that we should not be speculating on the cause of death, so the sourced wording in the article as I'm writing this is appropriate. Tvoz/talk 07:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for restoring that portion, guys. Richard, nice to see you at this article. I don't understand your argument about not including Houston's death in the lead, though. It's not a part of her life. It's after her life, and including it in the lead is no doubt in line with WP:LEAD (per that guideline and the arguments by others above). Flyer22 (talk) 09:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I fix the lead a bit as we dont guess here for several days how is this possible she died 3 days ago . WP:LEAD "When a subject dies, the lead need not be radically reworked. Unless the cause of death is itself a reason for notability, a single sentence describing it is usually sufficient." Good example Adolf Hitler when the facts are available. Moxy (talk) 04:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't there be something in the lead about Houston's origins, how she emerged on the pop scene, as seen in this diff? The Michael Jackson article also does this, in the first paragraph. To only have her achievements and death in the lead doesn't tell us who Houston was before that. Adding her origins/how she debuted also follows WP:LEAD, since we do dedicate a part of this article to her early life. Flyer22 (talk) 20:02, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not having her struggles included in the lead is another issue. But whatever is done, just make sure to keep it no longer than four paragraphs, per WP:LEAD. Flyer22 (talk) 20:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All Hallow's Wraith made an edit to the 1963–1976: Early life section suggesting that Whitney Houston's non-African ancestry was more distant than her African ancestry, and that she was mostly of African ancestry. This can't be factually stated without having her genetic DNA results for both of her parents, which is something she never participated in publicly. According the to this video interview (starting at the :54 mark) of Cissy Houston, Whitney's mother, Whitney's maternal great-grandfather, John Drinkard, Jr., was full Native American. If you go to the 1:00 mark, Cissy Houston states that her great-great-grandfather (Whitney's great-great-great-grandfather) was fully Dutch. Furthermore, Whitney Houston's maternal great-grandmother, Susan Bell Drinkard (nee Fuller), is described by Cissy Houston as being 'Dutch'. The full Dutch ancestor would have been that of Susan Bell Fuller, the great-grandmother.

Even thought her African ancestry was, aesthetically, more dominant, her non-African ancestry is more recent than her African ancestry as she would be further removed from direct African parentage via the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. Her direct European and Indigenous American parentage is more recent. Therefore, it's inaccurate to state that these ancestries are more distant than her African-slave parentage.^[1] Bab-a-lot (talk) 23:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually all Humanas as all mammals may origintae in Eurasia so this "American parentage is more recent" may be not exactly be true. Is this talk smoke to cover ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.90.197.87 (talk) 11:50, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by that? Dutch people descent from Nordic Caucasians who evolved outside of Africa. The inheritance of Native American ancestry occurred on the American continent during the 1800s, not in Africa or in Asia. These ancestries were not inherited before her sub-Saharan African ancestors left the continent of Africa - prior to the 1700s. Therefore, her direct non-African ancestry is more recent. She is 3 generations removed from direct/full Native American parentage, 5 generations removed from direct/full Dutch parentage and more than 5 generations removed from direct/full African parentage. It's an issue of hypodescent but here lineage has known admixture starting with 5 generations ago, at least, which is rather. Most African-Americans with lineages rooted in the American south are over 12 generations removed from direct African parentage. Therefore, her non-African ancestry is recent, namely her Native American ancestry, then her Dutch ancestry. Bab-a-lot (talk) 14:41, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The results had yet to be determined. The case is supposed to be sealed. But a leak from the dept a insider tells radaronline.com. I ask the Wiki lock the pages until the results are released. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.128.146 (talk) 00:32, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

During Aretha Franklin's interview with Al Roker of NBC's the Today Show, Aretha told Al that she was not Whitney's Godmother and she doesn't know how that rumor started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.164.87.49 (talk) 13:36, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Darlene Love is Whitney Houston's godmother. She recently spoke out on the Nancy Grace Show

Nancy Grace spoke with Whitney Houston's godmother and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame singer Darlene Love. Love remembers meeting Whitney when she was only eight-years-old. She describes Whitney as a caring, nurturing young child who always took care of others. Love begins to cry as she tells HLN's Nancy Grace how positive and full of life Whitney always was, saying, "...she was a light, that has been put out."

--Bab-a-lot (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that right now there is much interest in the circumstances and consequences of her death, so I wont make an issue out of it and just leave this here to remind people to shorten the death section later on when interest has subsided. Omegastar (talk) 16:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say that it's too large. It's about the size of Michael Jackson's, except smaller. But then again, we haven't even gotten to the memorial and aftermath information yet. Of course, that (the memorial information) should be there later today, but I don't see a problem with hefty sections on her death/memorial, the reaction to them, and aftermath. She's a highly notable figure, and there's a lot to state about those things. Unlike the Death of Michael Jackson and Michael Jackson memorial service articles, we do not yet have similar articles for Houston. So her Death section may be longer than Jackson's, unless we create articles about those things. Flyer22 (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should we really say that Brown was invited but left early? That is Brown's story, when it may be that he was actually banned from the funeral like reports are acknowledging may have been the case. No source is saying that he was banned, except for TMZ.com (and they don't usually count as a reliable source here at Wikipedia, despite their having been right about many, if not most, things), but I would think that we should wait to hear from both sides. See if the other side confirms or refutes that Brown was banned from the funeral before we say that he was invited. I have no problem with saying that he attended and left early, but saying that he was invited has only been his story. Flyer22 (talk) 13:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think there should be criticism section about her numerous black critics who said she said she sounded too white when singing. I think this a significant part of her eerly career does anyone else agree.Here are some links I am thinking of using.[1][2][3] Dwanyewest (talk) 17:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard that she was criticized for "selling out," "acting white," and not being "black enough," as the sources you provided show, but I never heard it stated anywhere that she sounded white/too white...until now. Information about her "selling out" and the "too white" accusations are already covered in the 1987–1991: Whitney, I'm Your Baby Tonight and "The Star Spangled Banner" section (although more about it should maybe be added there) and does not belong in the Voice section that deals with her vocal ability and the legacy it leaves behind, which is why I reverted your edit. If any criticism of her voice belongs in the Voice section, it's the material stating that (in the last couple or few years of her career) she lost her voice. Flyer22 (talk) 19:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]