User talk:Thibbs: Difference between revisions

Hello Thibbs! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, Please do your best to always fill in the summary field. This is considered an important guideline in Wikipedia. Even a short summary is better than no summary. An edit summary is even more important if you delete any text; otherwise, people may think you're being sneaky or even vandalizing. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! -- Kukini 16:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply] Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Wikipedia Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Wikipedia rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

Sorry about all the extraneous boxes! I moved a bunch of mine... -- Whereizben - Chat with me - My Contributions 14:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, I think that Recruitment tool needs some cleaning out, I don't think that games that aren't put out by a group or endorsed by that group should be categorized as a recruitment tool for them. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Whereizben (talk • contribs) 15:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I agree. I'm planning a major overhaul of the page. I definitely think that products not endorsed by the group they are recruiting for need to be cleaned out (although I think they could still be considered non-recruitment-tool advergames). I also think some of the films are not actually recruitment tools. Go ahead and make improvements as you see fit. Cheers Thibbs 12:25, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

I've deleted the category for The Legend of Zelda items, as we previously had a category for Zelda weapons and items that was deleted. Please do not make categories that will only hold a few articles. Pagrashtak 21:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The short answer is that those other categories should probably be deleted. In fact, these categories came up at the VG project recently (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#A question about articles that are leaning towards game guides). Hopefully most of the articles in those categories will be merged, redirected, or deleted as needed, and then the categories will be deleted once they are nearly depopulated. By the way, if you want to link to a category, use [[:Category:Foobar]]. Pagrashtak 15:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The categories shouldn't be depopulated until they have been deleted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. Pagrashtak 15:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regrettably, it looks like this user's already been blocked by an admin who had it in for him. I'm suggesting to them that an indef-block was way too harsh, but the admin is claiming they are "unrepentant" in the same vein of "the beatings will continue until morale improves." M1rth (talk) 17:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that ForeverFreeSpeech has not been very well instructed as to how to make appropriate edits and it does seem a bit harsh to block him indefinitely. I think the reason most people have taken such instant dislike to this user is that he tends to be uncivil and frequently accuses other editors of involvement or support for fascist or racist organizations. I think he is inflammatory by nature and that he should probably have been directed to the proper guidelines weeks ago. It is unfortunate because I don't think he was trying to vandalize, he just hadn't learned the neutral path which good editors are expected to follow and I think he let personal sentiment get in the way of good judgment. I agree that he should probably have only been given a temporary ban but that he should have been pointed to appropriate wikipedia guidelines to read during his time off. -Thibbs (talk) 17:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to weigh in on FFS's talk page. Mastcell (the admin who originally abusively blocked him for "edit warring" with a bot designed poorly enough that it edit-wars) has started attacking. :( M1rth (talk) 18:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Thibbs for all your grammar guidance in my contributions. I really apreciate that. Sometimes my english is quite rough because I'm not an english native speaker. (don't worry, I'm not using wikipedia to learn it ^^) Probably this small sentence has a lot of mistakes too, LOL. Thanks you!! RG4ever (talk) 05:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. Interesting articles you're creating. Glad I can help. -Thibbs (talk) 15:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! Don't worry, just create a new section whenever you need to chat (because old sections are usually archived). As for VGChartz, there were many discussions at the WikiProject Video Games, and consensus has historically been that it is not a reliable source. Some examples are here, here (where I bring the point that we should be able to use reliable sources even if they are using unreliable data) and here (where I made a long post with the history of VGChartz in Wikipedia which may be useful). If you want to quote VGChartz, you will have to make a new discussion at the WikiProject. My point of view is that unreliable source becomes reliable when quoted by a reliable source, although it could be abused in certain circumstances. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The verifiability policy can only be used on reliable sources (otherwise people would be able to use Geocities pages to reference information). And WP:RS basically indicates that a reliable source is such if other reliable sources in the topic consider it reliable. VGChartz, even though they have a lot of fans, are not considered reliable by most of the media. While certain articles use them (some mentions at C&VG, a New York Times and a Forbes one, the Guinness book and a press release by Codemasters, if I recall correctly), companies still use NPD as source for their information. The only time IGN mentioned VGChartz was just because Codemasters mentioned them. It is much harder to check GameSpot for mentions about it, especially since most of the hits are because mentioning that word in the comments sections.

That is basically the rationale behind not allowing VGChartz numbers here: until companies do regard it as reliable, and the media use them regularly, they are to be restricted. Magic Box? Personally I would like to replace all those references with others, even if the numbers are lower. I am basically against any site being used heavily for information (as you can see in both best-selling video game lists, we use a broad spectrum of sources, from consumer and industrial to completely foreign and mass media). My personal thought about Magic Box is found in one of the links I posted, too. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 01:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. Regarding why TMB is considered reliable, I am not really sure. The first ever version of the page (a couple of months before I joined) used it. I guess since nobody ever objected TMB in the beginning, it was accepted due implicit consensus. My own opinion is that they don't make assumptions, they only transcribe data from Famitsu. Again, I am against using a single reference for many games, and would love to replace their references with others until there is no Magic Box just as there are no VGChartz or Nexgenwars or any other similar site, but it will take time.

I would love to point to a single discussion where VGChartz is accepted as an unreliable source, but there is not one. Just as TMB was thought to be reliable, VGC was thought to be unreliable since the first day. Maybe gaming forums like NeoGAF pushed their point of view about VGC to Wikipedia without us knowing the move (would be sad, but not the first time a group does that). I have tried many times to create a discussion, but most people just think "it is because it is". Personally, I use Special:Linksearch and everytime a vgchartz.com link appears, I replace it with a reliable source. Fortunately, there are not that many links nowadays, so it is an easy task.

There was a WikiProject that took care of verifiability, plus a noticeboard to discuss whether are reference is reliable or not. Maybe we could use them and bring WPVG there to discuss.

I already pointed my personal fear: if VGC is found reliable, every single reference will be eaten by vgchartz.com because it is updated weekly, just like TMB eats references for old games (not that those references are easy to find, though). Personally, I think the current best-selling articles to be in much better shape than a simple mirror of either site (even though some games have very old references). I prefer having a New York Times reference say a game sold a million copies by 2003 than a VGChartz reference saying it sold two million copies by 2008. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 18:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]